Sachliches Forum

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eröffnet am: 27.05.13 23:43 von: Kay-Uwe Anzahl Beiträge: 1187
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27.05.13 23:43

58 Postings, 3480 Tage Kay-UweSachliches Forum

Ich würde hier gern ein sachliches Forum eröffnen, um sich auf einem gutem Niveau auszutauschen und sich gegenseitig zu ergänzen. Würde mich über konstruktive Beiträge freuen.  
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1161 Postings ausgeblendet.

04.06.13 15:04

56 Postings, 3521 Tage whiteknightPendelung in Sicht

Meine bescheidene Meinung findet man etwas weiter vorn hier im Thread und sie ist unverändert. Ich gehe davon aus, und die neueste Nachricht zu FNIC, die Gesellschaft welche aus FNMA und FMCC hervorgehen wird, bestätigt mich, lässt Füße kalt werden und das wird ein Weilchen anhalten. Vor dem nächsten Zock in einem bis zwei Monaten, ist mit einer Pendelung um 1,10-1,20 EUR (eher 1,20) zu rechnen.

Um es mal plastisch zu machen: Die Herde wurde arg getrieben und braucht eine Verschnaufpause. Bis der Zaun vollends um die Herde gezogen ist, werden noch einige Verschiebungen für Unruhe sorgen, aber am Ende steht die Herde bis sie stark genug ist, um weiter zu ziehen. Hoffe sehr, der nächste Weg führt nicht direkt ins Schlachthaus. Und ich meine, davon sind wir Meilenweit entfernt.

Um FNIC zu konzipieren und die Beiden überflüssig zu machen, werden fünf Jahre (!) veranschlagt, also kein Hau-Ruck! Genug Zeit und Potential für weitere Zocks.

Wer halten will - bitte,

wer verkaufen will - bitte.

Bei 1,10 bis 1,20 steige sehr wahrscheinlich ich wieder ein. Aber erst, wenn dieser Kurs ein paar Tage gelaufen und relativ stabil ist.

Für die Newcomer: Man springt nicht auf einen Hochgeschwindigkeitzug (>300%) auf, da holt man sich regelmäßig mindestens eine Kopfnuss und wenn man Pech hat und sich nicht abzurollen weiß (SL), dann sind die Räder eine große Gefahr. Meine ersten beiden Trades, 1998, haben mich das schmerzlich gelehrt. Hach war das ne Zeit, ohne Internet, ohne Live-Trading ... "Kaufen! Kaufen!" ... "Verkaufen! Verkaufen!"


04.06.13 16:11

23425 Postings, 5692 Tage Chalifmann3viel Glück !

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- There's no doubt that the extreme volatility will continue for shares of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac , but despite the run-up this year, investors still see the potential for enormous additional gains.

Fannie Mae's common shares closed at $2.53 Monday, gaining 873% from their closing price of 26 cents at the end of 2012. Freddie Mac's common shares closed at $2.45 Monday and were up 842% from the end of last year when they also closed at 26 cents.

Junior preferred shares of Fannie and Freddie have also risen considerably this year, and since they have a potential to rise to par value if investors become convinced the dividends will be reinstated, they have been seen as a safer play. The junior preferreds are indeed the more conservative play for investors, based on the potential dividends and preference over the common shareholder in the event the GSEs were "broken up" by the government.

But the eventual gains on the preferred shares are limited by their (hopefully reinstated) dividend yields relative to the market. The common shares are more risky but also appear to have more potential for investors, based on a very low valuation to operating earnings.

Fannie and Freddie, known as the government-sponsored enterprises, or GSEs, together hold roughly $5.2 trillion in mortgage loans and mortgage-backed securities, and remain crucial to the U.S housing market, as they purchase about 90% of newly originated mortgage loans in the United States.

The two companies were taken under government conservatorship at the height of the financial crisis in 2008.

Also see: Fannie and Freddie Keep Flying High: Financial Winners >>

The U.S. Treasury holds $117.1 billion in Fannie Mae senior preferred shares and $72.3 billion in Freddie Mac senior preferred shares, in lieu of bailout funds provided to the GSEs. Both GSEs returned to profitability last year, and have been making very significant dividend payments on the senior preferred shares, while dividends on junior preferred shares have remained suspended since September 2008.

Per their amended bailout agreements, Fannie and Freddie are required to pay dividends to the government equal to all of their earnings, less $3 billion apiece in retained earnings to provide a minimal equity buffer.

As a further sweetener, the government holds warrants to purchase common shares in Fannie and Freddie in sufficient quantities to give the Treasury a 79.9% stake in each GSE, at a very low price of $0.00001 a share.

Fannie Mae announced on May 9 it would pay the Treasury a second-quarter dividend of $59.5 billion, after determining it could recapture most of its valuation allowance for deferred tax assets (DTA) at the end of the first quarter. Freddie Mac announced on May 8 that it would pay a dividend of $7 billion to the Treasury in June.

Following the June dividend payments from Fannie and Freddie, the government will have received dividends totaling $131.6 billion on its combined GSE preferred investment of $189.4 billion. That is quite a solid return to U.S. taxpayers, especially considering that a few years ago, the GSEs were all but given up for dead.

But no matter how much Fannie and Freddie can now earn, there is no mechanism in place allowing either Fannie or Freddie to repurchase any government-held preferred stock.

High-Profile Investors Fight for Private Shareholders
Two recent statements by high-profile investors in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have huge political significance.

Ralph Nader in an op-ed piece published in the Wall Street Journal on May 24 said he was a shareholder in both GSEs and that common shareholders of Fannie and Freddie should fight against the federal government's "great Fannie and Freddie rip-off."

Also see: Berkowitz's Fairholme Discloses $2.4B Stake in Fannie, Freddie Preferreds >>

"The zombie common shareholders have no rights or remedies against Fannie and Freddie, both operationally active companies, or their regulator -- the Federal Housing Finance Agency," Nader wrote, adding that "FHFA ordered the Fannie and Freddie boards and executives to suspend communications with shareholders and abolish the annual stockholders meeting."

Despite the continued cries to "break up Fannie and Freddie" from some politicians and pundits, President Obama and Congress have been in no hurry to come to an agreement on a way forward for home financing in the U.S. During an economic recovery that has included a slow increase in employment, there has been understandable hesitation to radically transform the largest segment of the economy.
Looking ahead to an eventual political settlement, Nader wrote "the common shareholders of Fannie and Freddie need to organize and make their voices heard in Washington. Clearly, they should have a say in how Fannie and Freddie are managed -- in the board room and in Congress -- from here onward."

Bruce Berkowitz's Fairholme Capital Management on Monday said that its clients, including shareholders including shareholders of The Fairholme Fund and The Fairholme Allocation Fund , "own approximately $2.4 billion par value of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Preferred Stock and are ready to help with a restructuring that accelerates the return of meaningful investment to the secondary mortgage market."

That equates to investments with market values totaling roughly $580 million, as the most liquid preferred issues of Fannie and Freddie trade for about 24 cents on the dollar.

Fannie Mae Series S junior preferred shares (FNMAS), with a $25 par value closed at $6.00 Monday. Freddie Mac's Series Z junior preferred shares (FMCKJ), with a $25 par value, closed Monday at $6.03.

Investors going into these junior preferred issues at Monday's closing prices have an opportunity to quadruple their investments if the dividends are restored, which would push the shares right back to par value, with market adjustments depending on how the shares' floating dividend rates compare to overall market rates when and if the dividends are restored. The shares could also jump right to par as soon as investors believe the dividends will be restored.

Also see: Ralph Nader, Wounded Shareholder of Fannie Mae Freddie Mac >>

You may be shaking your head at how unlikely it might be for the junior preferred dividends to be restored, but the junior preferred shareholders could be "made whole" in another way.

Fairholme's letter on Monday contained some very interesting comments.

Fairholme (and therefore Berkowitz) said "there are no substitutes. Fannie and Freddie currently purchase or insure 6 out of every 10 home mortgages in America. Today, they are stronger than ever -- enabling the United States Treasury to rapidly recoup its temporary emergency investments in both entities."

Of course, those who wish to see Fannie and Freddie, with $5.2 trillion in assets, simply "go away," may forget that even if the GSEs were to be broken up, all that mortgage paper would still exist, and shareholders would have claims on those assets.
Moving on, Fairholme made its demand: "Taxpayer dollars expended by the government during a time of national crisis will be fully repaid. And equitable treatment of taxpaying shareholders, including community banks, insurance companies, and mutual funds holding Preferred Stock, must be restored with dividends reinstated. Repaying taxpayer investments, restructuring government guarantees, and restoring shareholder property are not mutually exclusive. This is the American way."

Then after calling for the immediate restructuring of Fannie and Freddie, Fairholme made its most interesting comment: "On behalf of the hundreds of thousands of Fairholme Funds shareholders who helped to rebuild American International Group , Bank of America, CIT Group , General Growth Properties , MBIA Inc. , and others after the Great Recession -- we stand ready to do our part."

Also see: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Help Uncle Sam Shrink Deficit: CBO >>

Fairholme made it pretty clear that hundreds of thousands of investors -- voters -- would be displeased if the president and Congress were to force the GSEs to continue paying outsized dividends to the Treasury while not allowing Fannie or Freddie to repurchase any of the government's senior preferred shares.

Fairholme also neatly tied its offer of assistance to the government's conversion of senior preferred shares in American International Group to common shares, which enabled AIG to move past its bailout, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve both claiming tidy profits .

Such a move could raise the junior preferred shares to par value and would also enable Fannie and Freddie to begin rebuilding their capital levels, since they would no longer be paying all of their earnings to the government. Then, like AIG, the GSEs could repurchase government-held common shares, thus lowering the share count, increasing earnings-per-share, and possibly setting up huge gains for the common stockholders.

Anticipating the expected negotiations between President Obama and Congress over the GSEs future, Nader wrote that "the common shareholders of Fannie and Freddie need to organize and make their voices heard in Washington. Clearly, they should have a say in how Fannie and Freddie are managed -- in the board room and in Congress -- from here onward."

The Common Shares are Cheap
A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation shows the potential for very large gains for Fannie Mae's common shareholders, because the shares trade at a very low valuation to the company's potential annual operating earnings.
The government has warrants to purchase up to 79.9% of Fannie Mae's shares at a price of $0.00001 per share. During the first quarter, Fannie had 5.762 billion in common shares outstanding, including the government's potential stake, according the company's most recent 10-Q filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. That would make for a market capitalization for the common shares of $14.578 billion, based on Monday's closing share price.

At this point, Fannie's earnings are being swallowed up by the government, because of the revised bailout agreement, but if the company no longer had to pay that dividend, its earnings available to common shareholders would be substantial.

Fannie's pretax income during the first quarter was $8.114 billion. The company's outsized first-quarter results and its dividend to the government reflected an income tax benefit of $50.6 billion, because of the DTA recapture. If we applied, say the top corporate tax rate of 35% to the $8.114 billion in pretax earnings, we would be left with earnings of $5.274 billion. If we then paid dividends on the junior preferred shares of $419 million -- which was roughly the amount of preferred dividends Fannie accrued during the third quarter of 2008 -- we would be left with earnings available to common shareholders of $4.885 billion for the first quarter.

That implies annual earnings power of about $19.4 billion for Fannie Mae. So one can argue that Fannie Mae's common shares are trading for considerably less than one year's earnings.

A bigger question for investors holding the common shares will be just how much additional equity Fannie and Freddie will need to be recapitalized, if and when the GSEs are allowed to repay Uncle Sam. But there's a whole lot of dilution that could be absorbed, considering the GSEs' earnings power.

But the "AIG model," of conversion of government-preferred shares to common shares, as implied by Fairholme Capital Management, could mean a fantastic, albeit limited, return for the junior preferred shareholders, and an even greater return for the common shareholders.

-- Written by Philip van Doorn in Jupiter, Fla


04.06.13 16:12

14454 Postings, 6968 Tage inmotionVola

15:47:26 1,91 ?

wer auch immer 1.91 bezahlt hat wird sich ärgern  

04.06.13 17:12

403 Postings, 3482 Tage Heikitsch25chalifmann3

danke für den tip wenn ich demnächst etwas neues reinbekomme kriegst du es natürlich auch
YRC ist mir bekannt hab ich damals vor und nach dem split mitverfolgt!!!  

04.06.13 17:18

363 Postings, 3773 Tage Bauernfeindinmotion

Oder weiß mehr.  

04.06.13 17:20

8229 Postings, 3697 Tage Paradiso1fannie richtung tagestief

04.06.13 17:24

8229 Postings, 3697 Tage Paradiso1dip runter auf 2$

04.06.13 17:59

2127 Postings, 4687 Tage ingopeRunter auf 2$ ? Nee, glaube ich nicht.

05.06.13 00:32

58 Postings, 3480 Tage Kay-Uwe@whiteknight

Deinen letzten Absatz hättest du nicht besser formulieren können. Lernen durch Schmerz ist auch gerade meine Passion. Aber lieber am Anfang einmal hinfallen, als zu einem späteren Zeitpunckt gar nicht mehr aufstehen.  

05.06.13 04:26

23425 Postings, 5692 Tage Chalifmann3@all


Heikitsch,ich hoffe du bist aus Affymax noch heil rausgekommen ? Ich habe einen tollen Kurzfristtipp für euch: Savient Pharmaceuticals (SVNT),gestern fett angesprungen mit 5 -fachem Durchschnittsvolumen,Aktie kommt von 20 Dollar,aktuell bei 0,65$ ,Shortquote 25%,eigentlich ein guter Wert,den man auch langfristig halten kann,die haben schon ein Medi am Markt,auf den short Squeeze heut abend .... !

Viel glück !


05.06.13 07:02

441 Postings, 4907 Tage tobstaDiskussion zu Fakten

As a serious bipartisan effort written by members of the Senate Banking Committee, the measure could restart the long-stalled debate over the future of the mortgage-finance system. Still, it represents only a first step in what is likely to be a long legislative process, and it’s unclear how much support the authors will get from their colleagues.



Trade Detail

After Hours 
Time (ET)
After Hours 
After Hours 
Share Volume
16:43 $ 2.4588 High150,000
16:00 $ 2.25 Low4,295
16:00 $ 2.25 Low1,150



Mehr sag ich ich gar nicht :-)....


05.06.13 07:53

23425 Postings, 5692 Tage Chalifmann3hm

Mir wurde mal gesagt,an der börse wird die zukunft gehandelt ? Wenn F&F in spätestens 5 Jahren zugunsten der neuen company liquidiert werden,gibt es eigentlich nur noch den Sell-Button zu drücken,hm ?!!


05.06.13 08:16

3795 Postings, 4239 Tage SvennyReuters :-)

By Margaret Chadbourn

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -


The draft bill, first reported by Bloomberg, said revenues from a liquidation of the two companies would first be used to repay the government for its stake in the companies, with any remaining funds going to junior preferred shareholders and finally common shareholders.

The government has an 80 percent stake in each firm, with the U.S. Treasury holding about $117.1 billion in Fannie Mae senior preferred shares and $72.3 billion in Freddie Mac senior preferred shares. It also has warrants to purchase common stock.

Many analysts said it was unlikely any funds would remain beyond what would be needed to repay the government.

Investors, including some hedge funds, have been buying up both common and junior preferred shares of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the hopes lawmakers will draft legislation that does not wipe out current shareholders.

Fannie Mae(fnma) and Freddie Mac have drawn almost $190 billion in taxpayer aid and, by the end of June, will have paid the Treasury about $132 billion in dividends.

The two companies buy mortgages and package them into securities, which they issue to investors with a guarantee. They also sell debt to help fund their mortgage purchases.

After years of red ink, they have now returned to profitability. The terms of their bailout do not allow them to buy back the government's stake, which means they will keep making dividend payments as long as they are profitable without ever recovering the loan amount.

(Reporting By Margaret Chadbourn; editing by Andrew Hay)  

05.06.13 08:30

441 Postings, 4907 Tage tobsta....

Wer kauft für USD 350.000 FNM Anteile kurz vor Schluss und über Par?

Die jetzigen Pläne sind nur Gedanken des Authors, ohne jegliche Rückmeldung des Kongress etc bis dato....

Der Staat will kein Risiko = also logischer Schluss= FNM & FRE privatisieren, die schulden abzahlen lassen und zur Not Rückversichern, evtl. ein kleines institut neu instalieren, wie für Studenten zu besonderen kondition etc... Ginnie Mae und co


Abwickeln und neu Gründen, Klagewelle riskieren und das ansehen staatlich installierter Institutes verlieren, wo die Investoren so abgezockt wurden, staat bekommt knapp 15 % Rendite und anleger nichts mehr :-)...... das waren sowas wie staatsgeförderte anleihen auf immobiollien mit par value und dann alle so abzocken.... auf keinen Fall..... wer wird dann wieder in ähhnlich staatliche institute investieren ?

....scheint mir zu Risikohaft bei dem so gigantischen Mortgagevolumen der USA, hängt ja alles dran, nevver change a running system .... es läuft wieder und das besser als je zuvor... 



05.06.13 08:30

8229 Postings, 3697 Tage Paradiso1Fannie - der Chart sieht jetzt echt schlecht aus

05.06.13 08:50

5195 Postings, 4891 Tage andy0211mensch Paradiso1

wir sehen es auch, oder meinst du, alle anderen sind blind?
deine einzeiler sind nicht besonders informativ- den ganzen tag hast du nichts anderes zu melden. wir sehen es!!!  

05.06.13 08:54

2127 Postings, 4687 Tage ingopeIch glaube mal,

dass man hier derzeit überhaupt keinen Chart anwenden kann, geschweige denn danach handel kann.  

09.07.13 11:17

58 Postings, 3480 Tage Kay-UweSie..

09.07.13 11:37

2010 Postings, 3463 Tage SanjiChalifmann

Du redest von Zukunft???

Durchschnittsvolumen,Aktie kommt von 20 Dollar,aktuell bei 0,65$ ,Shortquote 25%,e

: )



09.07.13 11:40

2010 Postings, 3463 Tage Sanjitobsta : ....

das seh ich genau so.... mehr kann man dazu nicht sagen...



09.07.13 11:47

2010 Postings, 3463 Tage SanjiParadiso1

was du immer von dir gibst will doch hier echt keiner hören...

immer das schlecht macherei... nichts besseres zu tun?

ist das Leben soooo hart?????..???!!! : )



09.07.13 11:50

2010 Postings, 3463 Tage SanjiInformativ Twins

ich will wie die meisten hier Informative News... zu der Atkie.

und keine stichelein und rauskopierte englische Berichte. die kann hier jeder selber einsehen....





09.07.13 16:02

4713 Postings, 5034 Tage bierro@sanji

Du bist hier echt der Knaller in diesem "sachlichen Thread"!

Keine englischen Berichte, obwohl sich die Entscheidung über Gedeih und Verderb in den USA abspielt? Loool... Du kannst kein Englisch, nicht wahr?

Was soll denn hier besprochen werden, wenn man auch keine Kommentare über den momentanen Kursverlauf rauslassen darf?

Ich bin mal gespannt.  

09.07.13 16:30

2010 Postings, 3463 Tage Sanjibierrooo

sollte halt sachlich sein... und kein geschwätz. blödmacherei....

die englischen Berichte werden doch  von allen von englischen Übersetzer übersetzt.



08.08.13 13:26

4348 Postings, 4430 Tage koelnerschwabeInteressant

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